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Super Episode 50 (3 July 2016)
Topic Started: Jul 3 2016, 12:29 AM (15,729 Views)
+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

And we learned nothing! Well, aside from the fact that Mai is alive. Black does destroy Trunks's time machine tho, but Bulma remembers the one that Cell came back in time in, so they still have one in reserve! Also, we have a new ending song. It's garbage, but the ending sequence is cool tho.
EDIT: Summary
Herms
 
Goku Black has arrived in the present via a strange portal. He notes to himself that Trunks travelled through time to this point, then greets Goku and notes the presence of Vegeta and even the God of Destruction Beerus.

Meanwhile, Beerus and Whis’ attention is drawn to the strange ring Black wears on his right hand. Trunks demands to know how Black got here, and Black explains that he followed the path Trunks took through time and space.

Black mockingly asks if Trunks called for him, and if Trunks wants to die by his hands. Vegeta warns Trunks against fighting Black, saying he’s no match, but before Vegeta himself can challenge Black, Goku flies up to fight him (noting that the early bird gets the worm). He’s heard all about how strong Black is and wants to see for himself!

Black likewise says this is an “honor”: he’d wanted to trying fighting Goku in “this body”. Goku wonders what he means by that, but Black says he doesn’t need to know. On the sidelines, Kuririn wonders who Black is, and Bulma explains that he’s her murderer! This naturally leaves Kuririn even more confused than before.

Goku, still in his base form, trades blows with Black for a little while before finally becoming a Super Saiyan (though we see sparks, the characters only refer to this as “Super Saiyan” and not SS2). Black is thrilled to see such power, and Goku can tell that Black is like him: they both get excited to fight against strong opponents. At this point, Black’s ki rises, and he tells Goku to show him more of his power.

The fight continues, and on the sidelines Kuririn says that Black’s power keeps on rising. Trunks wonders why Goku isn’t using the same power as he did earlier in their sparring match (onscreen we get a quick flashback to SS3 Goku blocking Trunks’ sword). Vegeta explains that Goku has a bad habit of not fighting seriously at the start. Likewise, in the battle itself Goku and Black both note how neither of them is using their full power. Elsewhere, Beerus and Whis say Black isn’t half bad, though oddly his ki doesn’t quite feel the same as Goku’s.

At this point, Goku decides he needs to fight hard enough to force Black to use his full power. The fight recommences and Black takes a beating, but oddly he still seems happy about this, declaring that this pain will make him even stronger. Goku meanwhile thinks that Black is kind of gross. Kuririn notes that Black’s power has risen yet again, and as Goku and Black go at it some more, Trunks’ time machine is knocked over from the impact. Black notices the device and hears Trunks refer to it as a time machine, realizing that this is how Trunks travelled through time.

Black blows up the time machine, but shortly thereafter gets pulled back through the portal he came from. The portal closes, and Black is gone, but the time machine is in flames. Whis explains that Black most likely didn’t vanish on his own. Rather, Black was able to come to this era when the power of his “Time Ring” (the strange ring on his right hand) reacted to the distortions in time created by Trunks’ time machine’s passage through time and space. However, these distortions try and return to their original state, similar to the way a wound heals, and so as a result Black’s Time Ring forcibly pulled him back to the era he came from. In other words, Whis says, he basically just ran out of time.

Indeed, we see that Black has now returned to Trunks’ future world. Lying on the ground in some degree of fatigue and pain, Black says that Super Saiyan Goku’s fighting style has been “engraved” into his body, which will make his strength even more perfect. Though Black thinks he won’t be able to return to that era (ie the present) again, Trunks likewise is stuck there now that his time machine is no more, meaning that in the future world none remain to oppose him.

Back in the present, Trunks is having the same thoughts: now that he’s stuck here, there’s nobody in the future world to stop Black from wiping out the remaining Earthlings. When asked how Black’s power when fighting Goku compares with when Trunks fought Black on prior occasions, Trunks says that Black was “a little stronger” than before. A little, not a lot…probably. In that case, Vegeta thinks they’ve got nothing to worry about, since Goku wasn’t using anywhere near his full power (Vegeta also notes in passing that he hasn’t shown his full power yet either). Trunks wonders why Goku and Vegeta are both so much more powerful than before, but they say it’s a long story. Still, Black’s ki was also constantly rising as he fought Goku, so who knows what his limits are?

The Pilaf Gang steps in to extinguish the time machine’s flames (hoping that they can get food in return). With the flames out, the time machine is now nothing but a burnt-out husk. Bulma laments that even with her future self’s notes, she can’t rebuild the machine from scratch all on her own. Suddenly though, she has an idea and rushes off inside to find something. For his part, Beerus seems pleased that with the time machine gone humans now can no longer mess around with time, but Whis thinks they’ve got another problem to worry about now: Black’s “Time Ring” is something which only Kaioshins are permitted to use. However, Black is quite certainly not a Kaioshin. In that case, what exactly is he? It’s still unclear. Regardless, Time Rings can only take you to the future, and then back to the present, since even among the gods it is strictly forbidden to travel into the past.

Trunks asks Beerus and Whis to give him one of these Time Rings, but since Beerus is a God of Destruction (rather than a Kaioshin), he doesn’t have them. Trunks is still worried about what will happen to future Earth if he doesn’t get back there, but Beerus stresses once again that people shouldn’t mess around with time; both Trunks and Black are troublesome in that regard. Whis thinks that Black most likely can’t travel through time at will, and so probably won’t be back. Which means that if they want to defeat Black, they’ll have to go to the future. Kuririn asks if Whis can use his own time-manipulating powers to take them there, but Whis explains that his powers only allow him to rewind time a maximum of three minutes, and don’t extend to traveling into the future.

Trunks is despondent, since everyone in the future was depending on him. However, Vegeta tells him not to give up; there’s definitely a way to solve this! Beerus says that humans are always so quick to say “don’t give up”, but frankly sometimes there’s nothing that can be done; giving up is important too! Bulma finally returns, having found what she was looking for: a capsule which she throws out to reveal…the battered old time machine Cell arrived in! They’ve got another time machine after all!
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Jul 3 2016, 02:25 AM.
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Gospel
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We would've had some kind of indication by this point if the Earthlings were that bad. It would also undermine the whole point of saving the Earth and humanity that's been present throughout the entire series.


Maybe it could be something which happened a very very long time ago. Or it could be something else entirely but linked to the earthlings.

Quote:
 
who did nothing wrong


We don't know that for certain yet. Maybe his actions of Time Traveling or something else caused something horrific? Who knows?

Quote:
 
so every single instance of him fighting in that period was solo.


How do you know he was fighting with the androids in all the encounters he had with them? Especially after Future Gohan died Trunks mission was to travel back in time. His priority goal was to survive and make it back to the past and take the help of the present Z warriors to find a way to defeat the androids. And given that Trunks prefers to avoid battling Black(and this scenario being very similar to the android threat he faced), I wouldn't be surprised if Future Trunks had done the same thing back during the android threat after Future Gohan's death.


Quote:
 
Who would Trunks ask for help? Goku and the others were his only option. He doesn't know anyone else.


Exactly, that is why he was/is luck enough to get help from Goku(and the rest of Z warriors) and not some random person whose morality could have been even worse than Goku. I mean, I agree that Goku is not morally the most sound person but he is not that morally bad either since he had kept his promise of helping Trunks defeating the androids. Also, no matter how much he has screwed up with the Buu threat in the end he still took responsibility for his screw ups regarding Buu threat and managed to fix it with the help of everyone.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

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Future Trunks has without a doubt gone through a lot but so have the rest of the present Z fighters in different ways.


But they really don't. Our "heroes" have no idea what its like to be go through years upon years of suffering that Trunks did. They have no idea what its like to live in a world where there is no Dragon Balls and there is no Whis or anything to help alleviate the pain. Nether Goku nor Vegeta know what its like to lose a son and then never be able to see him again. They have no idea what its like when you don't have your magic mcguffin to help you out.

This is greatly pointed in the Boo Arc when Piccolo tells Super Boo to kill everyone on earth so he can buy some time for Gotenks. He might not like the idea but he knows they have Dragon Balls so they can wish everyone back. Goku can tell Gohan to ignore the planet's damage when fighting Cell because they have the power to fix it. Their problems are immediate and as long as their able to get past them, then they can fix them.

Even if Trunks wins, he has to live with what he's got now. That's probably why Trunks is the only person who stops Babidi from bringing back Boo when a combination of Goku, Vegeta and Gohan failed miserably on that due to their pride and arrogance. He can't risk screwing around in a world where things remain the same afterwards. That's simply something the present heroes never have to worry about.
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superperfectnerd
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I actually wouldn't argue that the heroes are spoilt really...I mean they are now but they've all been through pain.

Goku killed his own grandfather and lived alone in the woods until he was 12. This was probably alleviated somewhat by his nave carefree personality. Ignorance is bliss.

Vegeta lived through the extinction of his species as a child and had to live under the control of Frieza, only to die by his hand. Yes he still would have been a conqueror if he hadn't met Frieza but he wouldn't have been a slave to an almighty, unstoppable overlord. Plus the very fact that he was raised as a traditional saiyan, he had no chance but to end up a murderer. He now has to live with that as a good man.

Piccolo is similar to Vegeta, he had no choice but to start his life out evil and spent his formative years completely alone until he met Gohan.

Tien was raised by cruel murderers.

Krillin was bullied.

Yamcha couldn't talk to girls.

So yeah, they've all suffered.


Goku didn't know Black would be pulled back into the vortex but villains have escaped before without that happening. Like when Cell used the solar flare. Goku should have been wary of Black escaping to cause havoc especially after Frieza was able to blow up the Earth.

Goku's attempts to save people from themselves aren't usually an actual effort to hold back in a fight. He wants a good fight at all times, bringing out the good is usually a side effect of his personality. He could have defeated Black without killing him and then questioned/tried to change him later.

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Gospel
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It's true that Future Trunks doesn't have the Dragon Balls to fix his losses. But, the present Z fighter have also experienced the struggles Future Trunks had encountered. I mean they were not permanent like in Future Trunks Timeline but they know what it feels like to loose someone. For example, Goku experienced what it felt like to loose a close friend like Krillin in the Namek Saga. And in the Cell Saga Gohan experiences again the loss of his Father and at the same time Vegeta also experiences the loss of his Future Son. In Saiyan Saga Gohan experiences the loss of his Father against Raditz and then later experiences the loss of his mentor Piccolo against Nappa. Bulma also experiences the loss of her former boyfriend Yamacha against saibamen back in Saiyan Saga. Then Vegeta later sacrifices himself against buu. I mean these all are temporary thanks to the dragon balls but it's not like they don't experience the pain and suffering like Trunks does. I agree that Trunks had to bear the pain and suffering for a longer time in most of the cases but he has also got the chance to revisit his father,mother and mentor Gohan by going back to the past. And after the android threat he most likely had some peace time with his mother and probably also meet Mai. He has lost his family and friends but it's not like he is all alone because he has made new friends in his timeline and also by going back to the past.

He doesn't have this "magical" thing called Dragon Balls to help bring back the dead or correct other issues but he as an another magical thing called the "Time Machine" to help him solve some of his problems
Edited by Gospel, Jul 7 2016, 12:09 AM.
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+ QueenTD
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My Dear Melancholy,

Has it been explained why Trunks isn't surprise Goku is alive? Last time I check Trunks last sighting of Goku was him dying
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QueenTD
Jul 7 2016, 12:49 AM
Has it been explained why Trunks isn't surprise Goku is alive? Last time I check Trunks last sighting of Goku was him dying
Trunks was surprised, that scene was covered in episode 49. Did you watch the actual episode?
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My Dear Melancholy,

I forgot. Been busy and have important stuff on my mind
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Kblo247
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superperfectnerd
Jul 6 2016, 01:22 PM
Goku could have ended the threat in this episode but chose to mess around, which is fine, that's what he does but why didn't Trunks get mad at him? Seemed like the perfect time for somebody to give Goku some harsh truths. Now Black is back in Trunks' world and nobody can currently get there to prevent him from wiping out all life on Earth.
Black went back to where he belongs and where trunks chose to leave him to wipe out the world much like he did his 17 and 18 twice. That ain't on Goku or Vegeta. They didn't know the guy could time travel or t that he would be sucked back in which comes down to trunks not scouting or telling them about their enemies once again.

You can say well why did he play and try to read his enemy again when he had trunks word. Trunks word alone had 17 and 18 as being evil might be one reason

And lastly I keep reading trunks had no other option but to come to Vegeta and Goku to be saved which is b.s. as he had the main option that Goku and Vegeta always turn to. That option is get stronger and get it done yourself come hell or high water. Every time they hit a limit they keep going and never say well there is no other threat coming and settle. They better themselves even if it means getting on their knees and asking to be taught or being maids.Trunks whether it be fighting the androids or black never sought to get stronger to handle his own problems by his own choice; he chose to run and hide both times. If you don't want to do that, then sit down in the kiddy seat and don't tell the full bloods how to do it when they get it done no matter how convoluted it gets when you know they think differently about things
Edited by Kblo247, Jul 8 2016, 08:21 AM.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Kblo247
Jul 8 2016, 08:20 AM
superperfectnerd
Jul 6 2016, 01:22 PM
Goku could have ended the threat in this episode but chose to mess around, which is fine, that's what he does but why didn't Trunks get mad at him? Seemed like the perfect time for somebody to give Goku some harsh truths. Now Black is back in Trunks' world and nobody can currently get there to prevent him from wiping out all life on Earth.
Black went back to where he belongs and where trunks chose to leave him to wipe out the world much like he did his 17 and 18 twice. That ain't on Goku or Vegeta. They didn't know the guy could time travel or t that he would be sucked back in which comes down to trunks not scouting or telling them about their enemies once again.

You can say well why did he play and try to read his enemy again when he had trunks word. Trunks word alone had 17 and 18 as being evil might be one reason

And lastly I keep reading trunks had no other option but to come to Vegeta and Goku to be saved which is b.s. as he had the main option that Goku and Vegeta always turn to. That option is get stronger and get it done yourself come hell or high water. Every time they hit a limit they keep going and never say well there is no other threat coming and settle. They better themselves even if it means getting on their knees and asking to be taught or being maids.Trunks whether it be fighting the androids or black never sought to get stronger to handle his own problems by his own choice; he chose to run and hide both times. If you don't want to do that, then sit down in the kiddy seat and don't tell the full bloods how to do it when they get it done no matter how convoluted it gets when you know they think differently about things
How was he meant to train efficiently? It was all he could do to just survive against the Androids and Black; he didn't have access to any of the special training that Goku and Vegeta did. He doesn't have a gravity machine, he can't train with strong fighters, he'd be stuck just training normally.

Are you forgetting that Vegeta only barely managed to keep rivalling Goku after the 7-year gap? Trunks has had less opportunities to train and has to train normally, yet he still ended up getting much better gains than Vegeta, to the point where Beerus is actually impressed with him. It's obvious that he's been doing all he can to get stronger and beat Black, it's just impossible for him.
Edited by Yu Narukami, Jul 8 2016, 11:32 AM.
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Kblo247
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Nagito Komaeda
Jul 8 2016, 11:32 AM
Kblo247
Jul 8 2016, 08:20 AM
superperfectnerd
Jul 6 2016, 01:22 PM
Goku could have ended the threat in this episode but chose to mess around, which is fine, that's what he does but why didn't Trunks get mad at him? Seemed like the perfect time for somebody to give Goku some harsh truths. Now Black is back in Trunks' world and nobody can currently get there to prevent him from wiping out all life on Earth.
Black went back to where he belongs and where trunks chose to leave him to wipe out the world much like he did his 17 and 18 twice. That ain't on Goku or Vegeta. They didn't know the guy could time travel or t that he would be sucked back in which comes down to trunks not scouting or telling them about their enemies once again.

You can say well why did he play and try to read his enemy again when he had trunks word. Trunks word alone had 17 and 18 as being evil might be one reason

And lastly I keep reading trunks had no other option but to come to Vegeta and Goku to be saved which is b.s. as he had the main option that Goku and Vegeta always turn to. That option is get stronger and get it done yourself come hell or high water. Every time they hit a limit they keep going and never say well there is no other threat coming and settle. They better themselves even if it means getting on their knees and asking to be taught or being maids.Trunks whether it be fighting the androids or black never sought to get stronger to handle his own problems by his own choice; he chose to run and hide both times. If you don't want to do that, then sit down in the kiddy seat and don't tell the full bloods how to do it when they get it done no matter how convoluted it gets when you know they think differently about things
How was he meant to train efficiently? It was all he could do to just survive against the Androids and Black; he didn't have access to any of the special training that Goku and Vegeta did. He doesn't have a gravity machine, he can't train with strong fighters, he'd be stuck just training normally.

Are you forgetting that Vegeta only barely managed to keep rivalling Goku after the 7-year gap? Trunks has had less opportunities to train and has to train normally, yet he still ended up getting much better gains than Vegeta, to the point where Beerus is actually impressed with him. It's obvious that he's been doing all he can to get stronger and beat Black, it's just impossible for him.
Vegeta didn't meet a gap after quitting fighting. HE outright quit being a fighter initially after the cell games yet ame out stronger than Gohan years later and Trunks who was close to his equal. Trunks mentions struggling with a Dabura who Vegeta calls trash pre-MAjin and Goku agrees with him that Vegeta could have ended it easily.


Beerus is impressed with the guy sure because he is semi relevant and a new high power. He didn't compliment him like he did Vegeta when they first met in Super and the movie for his power. Goku toyed with the guy much like Vegeta did Cabba. It says something that Vegeta could boost himself up past the boys without a god ritual before Beerus arrives and no teacher ever, yet Trunks can't get past I ain't trained in 7 years Gohan and had difficulty with Dabura.
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